Volume 66 Number 71
Produced: Wed, 14 Feb 24 04:24:23 -0500
Subjects Discussed In This Issue:
AI in the Bet Medrash
[Joel Rich]
Automation of religious preachers
[Joel Rich]
Brachot/lifestyle (2)
[Joel Rich Micha Berger]
Brisker methodology (2)
[Joel Rich Micha Berger]
Observing the mitzvot is good for digestion?
[Joel Rich]
Privilege
[Joel Rich]
Rava vs Abaye (2)
[Joel Rich Micha Berger]
Redemptive element in Jewish Commercial Law
[Micha Berger]
Shabbat Candle Burnout
[Yisrael Medad]
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From: Joel Rich <joelirarich@...>
Date: Tue, Jan 30,2024 at 11:17 PM
Subject: AI in the Bet Medrash
There are those that project that with advances in AI and VR, within 5-10 years
instead of teaching Socratic texts students will interact with Socrates in an
open Socratic dialog. Will those who say AI psak is not appropriate also say
that an AI/VR bet medrash is problematic?
Bsorot Tovot
Joel Rich
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From: Joel Rich <joelirarich@...>
Date: Wed, Feb 14,2024 at 03:17 AM
Subject: Automation of religious preachers
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2023-92109-001
<http://www.torahmusings.com/?action=user_content_redirect&uuid=8207c9e51bcddfa69e31c3c37eef0c225b9172addfc8bd634557bef06ffbb0c1&blog_id=20608219&post_id=59587&user_id=0&subs_id=10121545&signature=2034c3be05bbb5c374c212ff65dbac43&email_name=new-post&user_email=<joelirich@...>&encoded_url=aHR0cHM6Ly9wc3ljbmV0LmFwYS5vcmcvcmVjb3JkLzIwMjMtOTIxMDktMDAx>
Over the last decade, robots continue to infiltrate the workforce, permeating
occupations that once seemed immune to automation. This process seems to be
inevitable because robots have ever-expanding capabilities. However, drawing
from theories of cultural evolution and social learning, we propose that robots
may have limited influence in domains that require high degrees of credibility;
here we focus on the automation of religious preachers as one such domain.
Thoughts?
Bsorot Tovot
Joel Rich
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From: Joel Rich <joelirarich@...>
Date: Wed, Jan 17,2024 at 12:17 AM
Subject: Brachot/lifestyle
The Shulchan Aruch's approach to birchat hanehenin seems very much that one
should arrange one's lifestyle to avoid safek situations rather than pasken. If
that is so, is it more here than in other halachot? If yes, why?
Bsorot tovot
Joel Rich
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From: Micha Berger <micha@...>
Date: Wed, Jan 17,2024 at 05:17 PM
Subject: Brachot/lifestyle
Joel Rich writes (MJ 66#71):
> The shulchan aruch's approach to birchat hanehenin seems very much that one
> should arrange one's lifestyle to avoid safek situations rather than
> pasken. If that is so, is it more here than in other halachot? If yes, why?
I think so, which is why you noticed.
As for why ... Perhaps the quip about the gadol who eats to make a berakhah
rather than making a berakhah in order to eat isn't just a clever line, but a
real ideal. When it comes to hana'ah, connecting that experience to haqaras
hatov to the One Who provided it is the iqar, and not "just" a matir. Perhaps /
efshar?
Tir'u baTov!
Micha
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From: Joel Rich <joelirarich@...>
Date: Wed, Jan 17,2024 at 12:17 AM
Subject: Brisker methodology
Quantum physics explains more than Newtonian mechanics but still has gaps in its
explanatory powers, should we look at Brisker methodology in the same way? (ie
there's a 'next level' to be discovered).
Bsorot tovot
Joel Rich
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From: Micha Berger <micha@...>
Date: Wed, Jan 17,2024 at 05:17 PM
Subject: Brisker methodology
Joel Rich writes (MJ 66#71):
> Quantum physics explains more than Newtonian mechanics but still has gaps
> in its explanatory powers, should we look at Brisker methodology in the
> same way? (ie there's a next level to be discovered).
In QM, one doesn't know what the math represents. The various different
interpretations of QM, what reality leads to that math, are considered
philosophy, not science. Since they all produce the same equations for
behavior, they cannot be experimentally distinguished. So -- not science.
Brisker Derekh is founded on the idea that the topic ends with its own theory.
There is not innate concept of baalus, baalus is *defined* by the set of laws
of qinyan, achrayus, geneivah, hefqer, etc...
It is, in that sense much like QM.
Which means that Rav Shimon Shkop already gave us a successor theory to Brisker
Lomdus, one which does connect lomdus to reality.
It also dealls with hitztarfus (how things combine), not only chiluqim. And it
is less boolean all-or-nothing than the way Brisk handles halachic categories
as chalos sheim.
While the haqdamah to Shaarei Yosher may be the most important work of hashkafah
of the past 300 years (although I might be biased <grin>) the rest of the book
should be critical learning too.
Tir'u baTov!
Micha Berger
http://www.aishdas.org/asp
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From: Joel Rich <joelirarich@...>
Date: Wed, Feb 14,2024 at 03:17 AM
Subject: Observing the mitzvot is good for digestion?
>From Maaseh Harav:
> In the essay we are discussing, the Rav expresses his disgust at the prevalent
> preaching to the effect that observing the mitzvot is good for digestion, sweet
> sleep, family tranquility and social status. He had never attempted to
> interpret the Torah via the categories of mental health, peace of mind and the
> like, despite the popularity of this approach amongst Jewish thinkers, Orthodox
> and non-Orthodox. He had no enthusiasm for those who would bedeck the Torah
> with modern-Bohemian crown and to demonstrate to those at ease in the suburbs
> of Boston, New York and Los Angeles, that it is worthy of entering their ornate
> living rooms. He follows this paragraph with blunt statement that religious
> action is primarily an experience of suffering
We go running for the shelter of our mother's little helper and it helps us on
our way, gets us through our busy day HT- The Rolling Stones
Thoughts?
Bsorot Tovot
Joel Rich
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From: Joel Rich <joelirarich@...>
Date: Tue, Jan 30,2024 at 11:17 PM
Subject: Privilege
Tzarich iyun post concerning concerning the chareidi community: Yes, we are
privileged. But we are asking ourselves in ever greater numbers: Do we want to be?
My comment:
Perhaps the question should be, is kavod shamayim being maximally served by our
current approach. I assume the einei haeida would say yes. Then the question
becomes how to respond to that position
Bsorot tovot
Joel Rich
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From: Joel Rich <joelirarich@...>
Date: Tue, Jan 23,2024 at 11:17 PM
Subject: Rava vs Abaye
How do we understand that the halacha follows Rava vs Abaye except for ya'al
k'gam? Did the later Amoraim review each disagreement and reach a conclusion in
each case? Did they have a general rule (based on intellect? experience?
lineage? Something else?) and carved out these 8 cases? (why?)
B'sorot tovot
Joel Rich
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From: Micha Berger <micha@...>
Date: Wed, Jan 24,2024 at 03:17 PM
Subject: Rava vs Abaye
Joel Rich writes (MJ 66#71):
> How do we understand that the halacha follows Rava vs Abaye except for ya'al
> k'gam? Did the later Amoraim review each disagreement and reach a conclusion
> in each case? Did they have a general rule (based on intellect? experience?
> lineage? Something else?) and carved out these 8 cases? (why?)
There is a postcast I highly recommend, Matmonim, given by R David Lapin of
Raanana. R Lapin has a Wikipedia entry at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lapin
(He and his brother are different people, don't let the initial "dalet" confuse
you.)
Matmonim are "buried treasures" found on the daf. Typically the podcast involves
one sugya in the gemara, a discusion of that sugya in Rishonim and/or Acharonim,
and a fundamental point about hashkafah or mussar -- something about how to live
life -- that emerges from that dialectic.
A high point of my day. Not an exageration.
Anyway, three shiurim involve this topic (transliterations of the Hebrew/Aramaic
half of the titles mine):
Gittin 22a: The Physical and the Conceptual - Machloqes Abayei veRava beNaqvo
baAretz veNofo beChu"L
https://rabbilapinmatmonim.buzzsprout.com/1528778/12986974
That is the primary discussion.
The rosh pereq: R AY Kook (Ein AYa"H Berakhos, longer quote that RDL's available at
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/%D7%A2%D7%99%D7%9F_%D7%90%D7%99%D7%94_%D7%A2%D7%9C_%D7%91%D7%A8%D7%9B%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%96_%D7%9B%D7%96
identifies Rava as one who pursued halachic concepts to the n-th degree, Abayei
was more focused on how the halakhah aided the spiritual elevation of the person.
But the idea is further developed in the following two related shiurim:
Gittin 48b-49a: Is the Torah Rational? - R' Shim'on Darish Ta'ama deQra
https://rabbilapinmatmonim.buzzsprout.com/1528778/13151371
Gittin 84a: I Just Can't - Al Menas sheTokhli Besar Chatzir
https://rabbilapinmatmonim.buzzsprout.com/1528778/13361426
I took the liberty of collecting the three mar'eh meqomos sheets into a single PDF:
https://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/Matmonim-AbayeiVeRaba.pdf
(And you realize how long Avodah has been running when you are reminded
that originally, our attachments tended to be faxes, and I named the
directory in that web address accordingly.)
Tir'u baTov!
Micha Berger
http://www.aishdas.org/asp
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From: Micha Berger <micha@...>
Date: Wed, Jan 17,2024 at 04:17 PM
Subject: Redemptive element in Jewish Commercial Law
Joel Rich wrote (MJ 66#70):
> My study of the Aruch Hashulchan choshen mishpat has made me realize more
> than ever that while every society needs to have a set of rules to settle
> financial disputes and damages, one really sees how there is an overarching
> redemptive element to in Jewish "commercial" law.
Rashi on Vayishlach quotes R Elazar (Chullin 91a) that Yaaqov went back because
the righteous consider their money precious, because of their care they take to
earn their money honestly.
Proper business ethics isnt just the permissable way to conduct business, it
actually sanctifies the activity. And therefore, the pachin qetanim were sacred
to Yaaqov, not to be simply left behind.
(As a dad, I had the more prosaic theory that Yaaqov had to go back across the
Yaboq because one of those pachin was Binyamin's favorite "baba". Without which,
he wouldn't let anyone sleep. All parents have "been there, done that." <grin>)
Tir'u baTov!
Micha Berger
http://www.aishdas.org/asp
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From: Yisrael Medad <yisrael.medad@...>
Date: Mon, Jan 15,2024 at 12:17 PM
Subject: Shabbat Candle Burnout
Can I ask a spin-off question?
Does anyone have a source for lighting the following week's Shabbat candles from
the Havdalah candle and extinguishing them immediately to have them primed and
prepared?
--
Yisrael Medad
Shiloh
Israel
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End of Volume 66 Issue 71